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 Post subject: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:12 am 
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Hello All. I started a Victorian game with some friends over Skype and am thinking about porting it over to this site. If you are interested, please respond here or you can contact me via email or site PM (if this site does pms. not sure? New here)


The basic premise is there is a pride of Bastet who are cruising the high seas on a denrealm ship, looking for Lost Cubs (due to the slave trade) and lost Trinkets/Talismans/Wonders/Fetishes of native peoples and returning them to their home cultures.

The game has a heavy historical vibe to it, and covers archeology, anthropology and other cross cultural types of explorations. The Triangle Slave trade has a prominent role, so if the thought of slavery and indentured servitude offends you, this is a place where you can make a character to combat that type of evil! This game falls on the lighter side of the World of Darkness, and you are encouraged to make heroic characters with strong moral views who are rallying against the Darker forces at work in Colonialism, Conquest and Victorian hegemony.

My style tends more towards the epic and dramatic, rather than rulez lawyering. I have a pretty good grounding in Werewolf: Wild West and the original Bastet books, and am passing familiar with Mage and Changeling. But I don't have every detail of every book memorized. I do take the Golden Rule to heart and encourage creativity rather than dot counting.

It's more important to me that your char's dots match their history and nature, rather than that everybody starts with the same amount of dots. Some peeps like to play lost cubs so won't even have the basic gifts yet, others may be bored with playing endless start up chars and have a concept they want to flesh out. Both types work for me, so long as every char has a long term goal that would make them want to fit in with the main group, or at least work with that group for a while. That being said, I won't tolerate peeps abusing less powerful PCs just for shits and giggles.

This game will have combat, torture, sex and intrigue but is also about exploration, adventure, and spiritual discovery. Combat monkeys and peeps who are into constant PC to PC conflict need not apply. Adults over the age of 18 only, please.

Role Play wins over roll play in my book. I will accept shifter PC's up to rank 3, Mages up to Arete 5, and Changelings will have their Arts modified to better work within the Werewolf system (sorry, the Changeling system doesn't lend itself to crossover well). If your PC is not a W:tA type char, your system will be adapted to work within that framework when issues arise.

So long as their back stories and natures/demeanors would make them suitable companions for the above premise, the following character types are welcome:

Shifters including Hengeyokai and kin of the following Breeds
(and yes I realize the Camazotz are NOT canon. I am allowing them anyway because they fit the theme of this game. Bunyip exist until the end of the 19th Century as per Werewolf: Wild West pg 57, PC info on Bunyip can be found in Wild West Companion):

Bastet (including Ajaba, this is pre Black Tooth/Endless Storm massacre)
Garou (including Los Infeliz and Bunyip, but not Croatan, or BSDs)
Corax
Gurahl
Mokole'
Rokea
Kitsune
Ratkin
Nagah
Nuwisha
Camazotz (in process of being eradicated by the Shadowlords at this time. In my version of things, the Shadowlords who came over circa 1860 to support Austrian born Silver Fang kin Emperor Maximilian in the Mexican War of Independence are the ones who put the final nail in the coffin of the Camazotz.)

Please no Ananasi, don't have the book, don't have a feel for them, can't run story for them.

Gorgons, Bygones, Chimera will be considered but are not guaranteed entry.

Mages and Sorcerers, especially Electrodyne Engineers (Steampunk, baby!).

Changelings and kinain, including Menehune, Nunnehi, Selkie, Clurichaun, etc.

Wraiths who have a reason to hang out with the group will be considered.

Vampires with humanity of 7 or higher will be considered on a case by case basis but may not last long if they are not played smart and well.

Demon the Fallen types will be considered on a case by case basis, tho I may use a bastardized Devil's Due type system for char creation to help them fit in the Werewolf setting.

If you want to play a villain type char like a BSD, Order of Reason (Union) Mage, Nephandi, Unseelie, etc. I would prefer to get a feel for how you play a 'good guy' first. Then if we are simpatico I will be happy to brainstorm ways to throw your baddie into the mix. Be advised a villain char is always more at risk of PC death than a 'hero' type.

If enough peeps show interest, I will post a website for setting and crossover rules and we will jump in and play!


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Location: Dallas, Tx
I'm curious to know how you think Changeling does not crossover well. Their crossover rules are fairly comprehensive in the changeling storytellers guide (and I might add they favor garou). Bear in mind you're allowing mages the power to summon black holes that can suck up an entire city and at arete 5 Mages are capable of altering almost fundamental universal concepts. With the allowances I'm seeing here, you're making a game where the mages will sit at the top of the proverbial foodchain. Unseelie changelings btw aren't villains..(unless you take some of the darker legacies that is)...unless you meant Thallain?

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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Yeah, Thallain, sorry. Also Autumn People. That's what I get for writing posts after midnight. I think my brain is remembering right but then realize later I'm sort of in the ballpark but inaccurate. You make some great points.

I will check out that book you mentioned, since the Changeling system I was referring to was the first ed Changeling book that still used the playing card system. Since that's the book I have. Thanks for the heads up.

Like I said, not an expert in Changeling, but I like the game and think they would work well in this storyline. I am a strong believer in the power of creativity and the Umbra, The Dreaming and The Dream Zone are some of my favorite story subjects. I will warn, however, that I don't stick religiously to the sourcebooks, preferring to add my own spin to things and incorporate cool ideas the players come up with.

I freely admit I am not an expert in Mage, but the times I have played it, I have experienced a huge level of frustration at having to slog along for months and months being useless in most situations because you only have 2 dice in arete and need a minimum of 2, or 3 or even 5 or more successes to accomplish anything.

Unless I am misunderstanding, high arete doesn't automatically mean someone has high levels in all spheres, does it? Even if you have five dice to roll to see if your level 2 rote works, you're still only performing a level 2 rote. It seems silly to me (and a waste of precious combat time, and we all know combat tends to drag notoriously anyway) to force Magi to have to make every attempt at magic an extended action because their meager 2 or 3 dice can't hope to accomplish what they intend with a single roll. Plus, Magi are still limited to the Quintessence they can gather, which is going to be more regulated if they are hanging out with Shifters who are very protective of Gaian Gnosis sources.

This is not a Magi centric game, but a Shifter game with Magi allowed. When you are traveling around with Shifters who can use Rage and Gnosis and get help from Totem level spirits, it just seemed fair to me to allow Magi to have a bigger pool to perform their rotes with. I try to make sessions that involve all PCs equally, each able to contribute to the situation in their own way. If what I set up turns out to be unbalanced, then we'll collaborate on making it more fair. I welcome constructive suggestions.

Also, since the Victorian era is the tipping point in the Ascension war, it seemed logical to me that Magi may be more accomplished in this time period, since they have had millennia of tradition to build on and are only just starting to be under fire from the Order of Reason. Plus, I have recently become enamored with steampunk, and wanted to encourage people to be inventive with their devices.


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:01 pm 
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To be fair, I can make an arete 2 mage (completely starting spheres) who can kill a rank 3 garou in a few rounds of casting (from a safe location no less). Its all about knowing the extent of the spheres and working within the concept you created. But to be honest at arete 3 you should be capable of some pretty damned impressive feats (like unsoakable aggrivated damage using prime or entropy), without actually entering the realms of being godlike. At arete 4 and 5...creating completely sentient and spirited (capable of awakening) beings is all possible. Erasing people from all knowing and rememberance and existance is possible (prime 5), Summoning hurricanes from nothing is possible (Forces 5/Prime2-3), Calling down black holes from the depths of the universe is also possible (Forces 4, and ALOT of succ required). The beauty of a weaker mage is the strength in being able to do what no other character type can do...and that's continued casting...and with a little knowledge in correspondence and the willingness to suck up the paradox for your feats almost anything...litterally...is possible (Like teleporting that pack of garou to the center of a nephandi labrynth: Spirit3/Cor3/Life3, and a lot of succ needed)...mages one must tend with care, or they can rapidly, swiftly and easily imbalance and disrupt a game with the stunning array of possible things they can do...with arete 5 mages you will be saying "NO" to save your SL's more than anything. The thing about mage is its designed to be slow...truly godlike magick's aren't supposed to happen instantly. And with judicious use of personal and unique foci, and a nice wide universe to manipulate I can gaurantee you a wise and shrewd mage can do some devastating things without touching a drop of quint...they just have to be willing to expand their paradigm and personalize it with the right foci, and work within their resonance traits.

In the end, and this is just my reccomendation, if you want a shifter centric game, try to limit the mages as much as you can. Also bear in mind, without knowing the right green paths of balor, changelings cannot enter the umbra without assistance...and few kithain have such knowledge.

And yes in a world where the masters are still around and kicking it makes sense...but trust me, you don't want mages with 5 dice to roll when each succ to effect is multiplied by 2. Nor do you want mages with sphere levels capable of reaching mastery levels, your rank 3 shifters will rapidly throw up their hands in annoyance when the mage once again saves the day and can do anything better than them.

In the end, I'm not trying to just poke holes in your idea, just making suggestions...Mages are walking gods, if they have time to prepare litterally nothing can defeat them...treat them that way in your chronicles, or expect to say "No you can't do that" a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:40 pm 
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I really appreciate your knowledge and feedback. Thanks for the posts.

Our chronicle is filling up, but if you are interested in joining, and want to catch me, I am usually on Tues and Thurs nites, from around 7PDT to around Midnight. I have a relatively fluid schedule so can be on during the day with enough notice, except for Tuesday ams. I am usually busy Friday nites, but can be on at least one weekend day and one weekend evening, usually Saturday, but sometimes Sunday.


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:58 am 
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Just wanted to pop in, in regards to this:
Quote:
To be fair, I can make an arete 2 mage (completely starting spheres) who can kill a rank 3 garou in a few rounds of casting (from a safe location no less).

Do be sure to note that when casting any effect that counts as an extended action, each roll will take from several minutes to hours. It's pretty absurd to allow a Mage, during combat, to take 9 seconds to add up 3 Arete rolls (spending WP on each) into a single big-ass fireball (or whatever). I've talked to Bill Bridges, who was the last developer of Mage Revised, about this specific thing, and he said that sort of thing was never intended to be allowed. This is hinted at a bit on p. 217 of Mage Revised, but they never outright stated it because they thought it obvious that you can't really cast a ritual in the middle of combat.

This will probably get more explicit treatment in M20, since it seems that a lot of people seem prone to abuse extended casting by using it during combat.

Of course, that's not to say that you couldn't sit in your Sanctum and cast an extended ritual over the course of a day with Forces 3, Correspondence 3, and blow the smithereens out of someone from afar. Paradox would still smack you, but unless you run with alternate Paradox rules, you can shrug that off pretty easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Thanks for chiming in Mike. Just a note to all 1855 Vic players:

I have to go out of town next Monday and won't have time to come online this week.


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:46 am 
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Hi. Been a while since anyone posted anything here, but it looked really cool and I was wondering if either it was still going and had room for another playeror if anyone else was interested in starting up a similar campaign. If there is room, I was considering a Devil or Defiler looking for certain Age of Wrath artifacts that he thinks will help him overcome the pull of the Abyss and possible gain a more permanent, internal, Faith source so he can leave Creation with an actual chance of not sputtering out and starving to death. Devils tend to work rather well with mortal critters like changing breeds with the Devil's Exalt making the mortals in question significantly more potent in whatever they're doing at the moment


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Game is still going but currently on hiatus while I move from West Coast to East Coast. I should be moved by the end of October, hopefully. We play in Skype as the Unmods chat program has proven to be too frustratingly glitchy for my sanity. PM me here with your Skpye name and I will contact you.

I have created a page for the game but haven't had time to update it regarding where the story is currently. http://singhasutra.wix.com/1855-victori ... e/mainPage

Check that out and see if it's something that interests you, if so we can discuss ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Victorian Game Set in 1855
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:06 pm 
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Mike wrote:
Just wanted to pop in, in regards to this:
Quote:
To be fair, I can make an arete 2 mage (completely starting spheres) who can kill a rank 3 garou in a few rounds of casting (from a safe location no less).

Do be sure to note that when casting any effect that counts as an extended action, each roll will take from several minutes to hours. It's pretty absurd to allow a Mage, during combat, to take 9 seconds to add up 3 Arete rolls (spending WP on each) into a single big-ass fireball (or whatever). I've talked to Bill Bridges, who was the last developer of Mage Revised, about this specific thing, and he said that sort of thing was never intended to be allowed. This is hinted at a bit on p. 217 of Mage Revised, but they never outright stated it because they thought it obvious that you can't really cast a ritual in the middle of combat.

This will probably get more explicit treatment in M20, since it seems that a lot of people seem prone to abuse extended casting by using it during combat.

Of course, that's not to say that you couldn't sit in your Sanctum and cast an extended ritual over the course of a day with Forces 3, Correspondence 3, and blow the smithereens out of someone from afar. Paradox would still smack you, but unless you run with alternate Paradox rules, you can shrug that off pretty easily.


This is not accurate to canon in 3rd edit. While I know this is forum necromancy, I just found this recently and read it. Anyways, extended actions in MtA (and extended magickal feats) are not the same as long winded High Rituals. In 3rd edit all magick in which the mage requires more succ than he can acquire in a single roll pushes the feat into an extended action (note: this is different than high rituals, however...high rituals are by their nature extended actions, just longer...slower ones and there are added gains for high ritual)...but a mage can, and does roll per turn if needed to complete an effect. This is explained in Pg. 217 3rd edition MtA core. To quote:

"In any extended action, you roll the character's dice pool multiple times. Depending on the circumstances, you may end up rolling once a turn, once a scene or even once a week."
"For the game to be enjoyable for everyone it should not always be bogged down with endless 12-hour rituals or similarly lengthy tasks. Time-pressure and the need to act quickly should keep extended actions from intruding unduly on the most intense or action-packed portions of the game."

Extended Magickal rolls is covered on Pg. 150 of the 3rd edition core and seems to imply turns to hours, and in a combat situation where flinging a fireball requires succ spent to Effect (damage), Area, or Duration (if it keeps burning after the impact)...we start talking about required succ no mage smaller than arete 5 can even do..at all. (and as we all know that certainly makes the big bad flambeau who ran around fighting wars with the tremere a little impossible to do, the hermetics didn't fight the massassa wars from their chantries, given tremere pop off their effects with a up to 10 dice pool, in one round, flinging a fireball back taking minutes to achieve is not how canon is intended.)..nowhere in the mage book (outside of high rituals in the guide to the traditions) is this implied. In fact in the heat of combat, its certainly implied a mage can push it to pull off an effect with needed successes in turns (which I might add 2 turns to pull of 1 effect is a lifetime of risk when there's garou using rage actions that are whipping out bajillions of agg in one round). In the end the time taken on extended actions is not meant to stop combat from actually happening magickally. And the time limitor of extended actions is meant to be nebulous based on the action you're performing, and thus up to the ST's discretion....complex creations, weather-witchery, strong curses, Node-drainings, Horizon Realm Creation, etc: These obviously take time...But Kamehamehaaaing up a fireball in 2 rounds is equally possible (just like its equally possible to punch the mage in the face while he's trying to cast it and so much as jostling him, much less breaking his nose could utterly destroy the effect). I'm not certain where you acquired this information on revised mage, Mike? Do you have a page reference which explicitly states extended rolls for an effect must take minutes to complete per roll? cause I am not finding this. I am finding turns-hours, depending on the circumstance and ST's discretion.

M20 actually made life on mages all the easier. Now, mages don't even receive a punishment for a vulgar effect in the form of a backlash until they reach 5 paradox (or the ST forces them to roll before that limit). And to boot no matter WHAT the effect or spheres were, any successful vulgar effect garners you -only- 1 paradox. Further, in M20 if the mage has violence as a focus, his Attack roll and magickal roll happen in the same round...making violent magi some of the ultimate badasses of magedom, and makes Martial Arts nigh broken in the things it can do in the hands of a magus with forces and a paradigm that allows violence in his repertoire. M20 only continues in disagreeing with this minutes per roll vein on pg.539:

"Essentially, a ritual allows you to roll until you get the
number of successes your mage’s Effect requires. In game
terms, a ritual might involve extended rolls, several turns, and
a series of actions, possibly with several different tools involved.
No Hermetic wizard, for example, would dare summon an
angel without the proper sigils, purifications, invocations, and
ceremonial instruments. Some rituals involve brief activity,
and others can take hours or even days. The optional Rite,
Ceremony, and Great Work rule (see below) reflects the
different time periods a ritual might require, as well as the rolls
and successes involved in such rituals."

Unless the ST operates under the optional rules, extended magick is turn by turn, not minutes, in M20. Admittedly on pg.413, with violence as a focus, you can foergo succ to target, and simply burn everything into effect in combat, but worse still, with violence as a focus, it becomes a simple Attribute+Ability to hit, and Arete for damage(or other odd effect), very very nasty effects get pulled off in one round (good luck hoping to stun the mage out of zapping you to dust there).

This all said I stand by my earlier statements.. Mages may be squishy, but mages can prepare better than anyone else in the world of darkness. They're more flexible than anyone else in the world of darkness, and even if you hamstring them more than canon intends, they will still be able to pull off effects nobody else can. One must be VERY VERY careful about adding mages to a mixed chron where the focus is especially upon garou. While a mage may easily be splattered by a simple swipe of a garou's claw. Heaven help the garou who tries to hit the mage with skill in life, forces and spirit, or knowledge of violent practices. Especially if you use M20 rules.

Admittedly, Bill Bridges may have nor intended what came of it, but the wording in the canon doesn't ban it, one must wonder why he didn't make it explicit? Because Phil Brucato certainly expounded upon just how easy and quick extended magickal feats can be. In fact slowing things down is now an -optional- rule.

But even still I stand by my statement, At arete 2, with forces 2 and correspondence 2, and a sanctum...in both revised and m20, a magus can rageface a garou of any rank....beware adding them to chrons with groo as the central focus.

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