White Wolf Unmoderated Chat Forum

New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum
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Author:  asterixchaos [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

I'm the player of Alexander Koster, and at the time of Marcus' disappearance, was playing as his Seneschal. With much of the core (and the WTF ancients) that existed in that group have filtered out, disappeared, been killed, got bored, etc, that we need to address what happens next.

Necropolis has a good, strong Sabbat population. Marcus' Sanctum, while trying to straddle the fence between the two factions did a fine job of undermining the Sabbat just enough for the Camarilla to at least have room to set up a foothold in the city, if they play their cards right, move quietly, and build some strength up in a hurry. Given the presence of the Ravnos at the Shipwreck and the growing Giovanni presence, there's a solid presence of independents for the Cam to work with/manipulate to get themselves into a position to carve out a chunk of the city from the Sabbat...

And most importantly, it allows for the establishment of a PC-run court that actually has crazy things like a Prince, a primogen council, and so on that aren't made of "Disagree with me and die" power. I'd like to see something happen that allows for more people to play, get involved, engage in politics, and so on.

I'd even, if possible, like to see the establishment of a prestation system, like that used in Mind's Eye Theater, so that the politics and status are something living and active and useful within the game.

That's what this thread is for: Let's discuss what comes next, try to come to a consensus, and decide how to run things after Marcus' influence has moved on to whatever he's moved on to.

Author:  ZedAlpha [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

I play Al Kavian, and I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Author:  Paul_Julian [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

Those WTF ancients are people from old unmod for your information along with the same chars.
I have no opinion since most rp is when I sleep so I have no influence, if any.
I suppose though Sabbat won' t let the city go and Cam/independ. chars will be dead without taking care of Npk rule that Alex wrote about.

Author:  Casewerker [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

I'll have to figure out what to do with Tasha in all this too. Theoretically speaking, she's Sabbat, but she is also more of an aristocratic old-school Tzimisce in many ways than she is a "Modern" sabbat vampire. Then there's the fact that Marcus claimed and adopted her as part of a nonaggression pact from her actual sire Dr Pestes (who's an NPC and still out there to be used for SLs if folks would like me to cart him out) - so she's the "childe" of a Ventrue, and said Ventrue explicitly left her in control of his properties, ghouls and holdings. And I haven't had a decent chance to deal with actual Sabbat in a very long time. :( She might not have anywhere to retreat to but the Cam, actually, however much she dislikes the whole limp-wristed (in her mind) "but we're supposed to embrace Humanity!" stuff.

She's an Ancilla, not an elder, and is hardly one of the WTF SMASH types. So the question is, does she remain part of the court and keep functioning politically as the very twisted Childe of a Ventrue, or does she get driven out/ashed/curb stomped/whatever, or does she retreat to the arms of her Sabbat fellows? She's not going back to the Doctor in any case. ;)

I'll definitely need to ponder on all this, and IC events will be highly relevant to the developments. But then, my play times aren't ideal for all'a y'all, so I'm not sure it'll matter all that much.

Author:  BoiledFrogs [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

(WARNING: This post may hurt your behind, read with caution)

Hi there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the venue (indeed, MOST venues on Unmods) needs a reboot not an overhaul. Start....Over. From an outside perspective, you're all nuts. Alex Koster doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, claiming some sort of status because the god-king of poor choices said he could have the position. Nay, TWO positions if you go by the website. The "Scourge" is an angsty, self-absorbed princess who no longer even PLAYS THE GAME.

I had the displeasure of observing the "Cainite Order" last night and if you want to discuss WTF characters, Declan and Alex should be top of the list, followed shortly by Labelle. That faffery wasn't vampiric politics, it was a bunch of science class geeks calling each other pimply and underdeveloped. The random appearance of a GIOVANNI representative asking the FAKE SENESCHAL of a FAKE COURT that shouldn't even EXIST to confirm that the GIOVANNI were safe in their territories was utterly laughable and I would have laughed, if my vamp books didn't all simultaneously weep blood and I had to go console them with gentle petting and soothing words.

Oh and if "We're not holding court tonight and everyone is free to speak if they so desire"....then don't cock up when someone interrupts your "Srs Bsnss" with his spewed brain aneurysm froth. I've observed the Sanctum many times now and each one has been a total letdown. Koster, if you really want to promote a good story and are willing to retcon to do it. RETCON THE SANCTUM. Give up, start over on even ground with the rest of the players and do it THE RIGHT WAY. Keep the character concepts, keep the personalities, scale back the dots to a mutually acceptable level and restart this nonsense like a finnicky PC. Because IT is killing the game, not the players that left or the players that annoy the heck out of us. It's the numbers and the setting.

For gods' sake people. Establish a Camarilla, Moo's getting the sabbat started up and that's Brilliant! It's time for the Cammies to get some action of a non-twilighty kind.

So here's my official breakdown. To appease everyone's need to be a bodacious bad ass, use the elder creation rules and NO MORE. Do not allow Age as a background, just as a quirk. Be a thousand years old, just don't get a billion freebie points to twink out your character with. 10/7/5 20/12/8 10 Disciplines 7 Virtues 20 Freebies and a partridge in a pear tree free with each creation. That way NO ONE IS THE GOD KING. Level ground, people. Now the real fun can begin when peers are jockeying for power and no one is creating overpowered meatheads with no applicable skills for survival just so they can be THA STRONGUEST THAR IZ! As I said before, use your character personalities. They're exciting, you like them, so do it! Just put the dots down on the desktop (or laptop) and back away slowly. The dots are not your friends.

Now, establish a Primogen Council. THE PRINCE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A PLAYER CHARACTER, PEOPLE! Instant RP opportunities for major political intrigue. It practically sells itself!

Next! Promote inter-sect storytelling. Have the sabbies hear about some of the things the cammies do and vice versa. Tell the Giovanni to STFU and GTFO (No offense, guys!) Give each other something to talk about other than getting their blood infused sex bits wetted to the tune of an organ grinder or an opera. YOU HAVE TO MOVE THE STORY YOURSELF IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE AN ST!

And please, work together. Lead by example. Play the game the way it was designed and others will follow.
~This has been a public service announcement from The King of Dunces~

Author:  Imuzen [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

What I saw in the "Sanctum" today, reminded me of an Anarch Barony. The Sanctum doesn't seem to be an actual Elysium. There seems to be one person who is willing to guide the characters, and one person with a plot idea. My first thought was that the place needed a Harpy to remind people to not be asses. However, they don't exist or thrive in a mixed sect game. They are mostly a Camarilla only entity.

This is the unmods, wherein, when dealing with open play, requiring certain things of characters is contrary to the basic point of the venue. Ideally, players would be able to check themselves to maintain a kind of balance, which cultivates interesting rp.

Author:  BoiledFrogs [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

Ideally, I agree. However, I've never seen this group stick to any form of ideal other than the ideal of "Let me show you how cool I am". White Wolf games are supposed to be about the story, where the group contributes to it in order to make it amazing. I've yet to see that happen, but I maintain hope and keep trying despite the occasional temper tantrum when my BS-o-Meter reaches critical.


Author:  Paul_Julian [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

The Sanctum used to be Elysium. Where others were playing. Now? Now noone is there, people work or play WoW, Skyrim or whatever, and take ic revenge for ooc things.

A story ? Like what story ? Game ? With WHO ? People who are not online ? People who stay in EW or have other things to do ? No way to follow the story.

Though, I'm last to grumble about it , cause I go to sleep, and I wake up 6 h later, and whole story started, flourished and finished when I was sleeping. Wtf .... It's not a story, it's some one scene game.

Author:  BoiledFrogs [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

I think what the english impaired one is trying to say is that there's no story. You're absolutely right. There's no -story-, just one or two people's personal lines. THAT is exactly what I was talking about. I've stayed silent on the vampire subject until now, and I've chosen to stand up now to add it to the ever growing list of flat failures. It doesn't need to be though, you people can save it if you really want to.

Author:  Maven [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Vampire Order / Vampire Sanctum

Ehem. *holds up time out hands.*
1. Can everyone scale back on the personal insults based on what they dislike about IC stuff? You can't criticize people for not following their persona's as written on the sheet AND complain that people sometimes act a damn fool ICly. If someones acting oddly IC deal with it IC and find out if maybe there is some good plot to be built from that. Jumping to conclusions will only make you mad and have you missing out on finding the very thing you're complaining there isn't enough of. Good plot! (In an ideal world this would include people accepting IC consequences for IC actions, but lets all do what we can with what we have and try to act like grown ups eh?)

2. I hear a lot of complaining and not a lot of suggestions. Yes i've seen OP characters, some with good concepts and some just cheese-weasles but if you want court and plot start building it. Make a normal level character and get intriguey! I know from long experience that sometimes all you need is enough bluff and confidence and even a starting level neonate can out-think the addle headed elder who's too set in his ways to think things through.
(*Is perfectly happy with all her characters as they all have their own plots and connection with others gained through much time spent RPING!*)

Now, I have several neonates and even one or two high level characters myself. I firmly advocate there being a good range of levels in any game. Lower level characters can get just as stupid when the power vacuum opens up on top and no one reminds them that the Sabbat is not the Fight, Fang and F*** club and the Cam is not Twilight; the boyfriending or whatever. Again, this works best in an ideal world where everyone is an adult, but I'm sure that there are plenty of ass-hat elder vampires in positions of power JUST like there is in the real world. (Don't even try to tell me you never had a boss dumber than a box of rocks, its almost a requirement of the job.)

I did see the scene in court so let me just say that while yes, it got silly, it made enough IC sense given the circumstances... basically the implosion of the power structure starting to take effect in the city. Everyone knows its happening and Alex just set the match. A very Ravnos thing to do I feel. You can take offense with how other people played their own characters if you want but if that's the case then maybe UnMod is not the place for you. (Or perhaps ST a story line of your own so you can keep consistency and hand-pick your players? I'm sure many people on here would love to have more regular games around, I know I would.)

I'm gonna go back to playing the game now... Cause I like for my drama to stay IC, where it belongs. And if the plot shifts away from things that make sense for my characters I will make a different character. For I am made of Zen and DGAF.

(Hands out Chill pills for all.)


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